coq-club AT inria.fr
Subject: The Coq mailing list
List archive
- From: Kristin Yvonne Rozier <kyrozier AT iastate.edu>
- To: coq-club AT inria.fr
- Subject: Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?
- Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2021 19:48:51 -0500
- Authentication-results: mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr; spf=None smtp.pra=kyrozier AT iastate.edu; spf=Pass smtp.mailfrom=kyrozier AT iastate.edu; spf=None smtp.helo=postmaster AT mail-io1-f45.google.com
- Ironport-hdrordr: A9a23:03Zpca1h9nLPfiGaZABW4wqjBHskLtp033Aq2lEZdDV+dMuEm8ey2MkB3RjvhzoLHF0mk9aMOK6PKEmslqJdy48XILukQU3aqHKlRbsD0aLOyyDtcheSysdzzqFlGpIVNPTVLXxXyfn3+xO5FdFI+ri62Zulj+vf0HthJDsCA8pdxj1kAQWWGFAefmZ7LKc+faDx2uN6vTa6PVwYYsOnb0NqY9T+
- Ironport-phdr: A9a23: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
I can second this. I have had several female students in my formal methods course who were adverse to even reading/discussing research papers that mentioned the tool Coq because they did not want anyone in the class to be able to hear or record them saying that word. The tool name has likely directly contributed to a smaller user base with disproportionately fewer anglophone women. I think the point has been made that the logo does not help either.
Cheers,
Kristin
On 4/5/21 1:29 PM, Jennifer Paykin
wrote:
In my experience, the name (and perhaps logo,
though I don't see it myself) does make English-speaking
newcomers uncomfortable, especially women, and therefore makes
them less likely to want to learn about Coq. If that were true
in another natural language I would say that would also be
justification for making a change, even if it were not
deliberate.
Jennifer
On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at 11:25
AM Talia Ringer <tringer AT cs.washington.edu>
wrote:
It's worth having a new logo for better illustrating the
programming
language, but not for accommodating a specific natural language.
language, but not for accommodating a specific natural language.
I'd be more inclined to agree with this if the original
naming weren't a deliberate joke. But I do know from the
Coq developers that it was. So this is not so much
accomodating a specific natural language, as not doubling
down on a joke deliberately targeting a specific natural
language.
Talia
On Mon, Apr 5, 2021 at
11:20 AM Yishuai Li <yishuai AT cis.upenn.edu>
wrote:
Not until meeting some anglophones have I realized that
the name andlogo both resemble chicken, or the slang behind its name. Before that
I only thought Coq might be named after some person (like Haskell).
Still I'm failing to see the logo as other than a chicken (Google
reads the image as "lovely"). I feel natural explaining to people that
"chicken is a symbol of France, and the lack of details reflects
abstraction".
It's worth having a new logo for better illustrating the programming
language, but not for accommodating a specific natural language.
Talia Ringer <tringer AT cs.washington.edu> 于2021年4月5日周一 下午1:05写道:
>
> I've brought this up before in person, too, at the Coq Users & Developers Workshop. I think using a different logo is good so as not to double down on the 1980s joke to troll anglophones, whether or not the resemblance of the logo was intentional (the name was IIRC). Very much for a new logo, and it's a much easier change than renaming a language.
>
> On Mon, Apr 5, 2021, 9:49 AM James R Wilcox <jrw12 AT cs.washington.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I had never noticed this before, despite apologizing for the name of the proof assistant to my students for many years. This year, I had a student point out to me the
>>
>>> flesh-colored logo with what looks like a mushroom top
>>
>>
>> and now I can't unsee it.
>>
>> Isn't it time for a new logo?
>>
>> James R. Wilcox
>> University of Washington, Seattle
-- ____________________________________________________________ __ /\ \ \_____ / \ ###[==_____> / \ /_/ __ / __ \ \ \_____ | ( ) | ###[==_____> /| /\/\ |\ /_/ / | | | | \ / |=|==|=| \ Kristin Yvonne Rozier, Ph.D. / | | | | \ Black&Veatch Asst Prof, Iowa State Univ / USA | ~||~ |NASA \ Departments of Aerospace Engineering, |______| ~~ |______| Computer Science, Mathematics, and (__||__) Electrical and Computer Engineering /_\ /_\ Virtual Reality Applications Center !!! !!! http://temporallogic.org/kyr
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, (continued)
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Dominique Larchey-Wendling, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Ralf Jung, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Michael Soegtrop, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Théo Zimmermann, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Stefan Monnier, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Sam Kuper, 04/08/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Sam Kuper, 04/08/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Hadas Zeilberger, 04/08/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Sam Kuper, 04/09/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Cyrus Omar, 04/09/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Kristin Yvonne Rozier, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Wilayat Khan, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Talia Ringer, 04/05/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Talia Ringer, 04/05/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Dominique Unruh, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Jay Kruer, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Paolo Torrini, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Guillaume Claret, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Thorsten Altenkirch, 04/06/2021
- Re: [Coq-Club] Why is the Coq logo made to look like a penis?, Guillaume Claret, 04/06/2021
Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.19+.